Blops Mod Tools 1.0 With Next Patch

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#21
Mod Tools 1.0... hmmmm. I am still of the opinion that these tools won't be as in-depth as modders are used to.
I understand where you're coming from Neil. What with all that PCDev said prior to launch about technical issues with the mapping tools due to new engine refinements, and the way that info has been taken and twisted this way and that by the community, I can see how it might look like Treyarch were setting us up for a big let down.

Now, let's get down to the facts: there are 2 active members in the modding community (by active, I mean still posting in community modding forums) who actually work at Treyarch as developers, and one of them (Sparky McSparks) is actually on the mod tools team developing them. As with all things, they are under an NDA so can't say anything overt about the tools, but both of them have hinted at the situation to various community members who are their close friends, and the general impression given by these hints is that the tools will include Radiant, and we will be able to make multiplayer maps, along with SP and Coop maps in much the same way as we did before.

Apart from these 2 developers, I happen to be on good speaking terms with a senior producer at Activision. Again, an NDA prevents him from saying anything overt, but again he has hinted to me that the problems that PCDev first thought of as being big hurdles to releasing a stand-alone Radiant, actually turned out to be not such significant hurdles after all.

In fact, from what I gather, the real upset as far as mod tools goes doesn't actually even affect mapping at all - it affects modding: we wont be able to mod anything to do with the stat-based system. So, no mucking about with create-a-class, no fiddling with the contracts or COD currency, no modding the wager matches. That means, from the sound of it, we modders will have a bit of a battle trying to get all weapons unlocked for unranked servers.

So, as it turns out, the famous words of PCDev about the "technical difficulties" with the new Blops engine, and how he feared it might limit what we can do mapping wise, which have caused so much speculation and debate in the community, were actually said too soon. If he had waited until post-launch, when he had had the chance to examine the situation more closely, he would have been able to avoid saying it, and have avoided all this heated debate and controversy.

People can choose to believe me on this or not. Frankly, I don't give a crap. Never have done. However, I will be proved right regardless of whether or not people believe what I say here and now about the tools by the product that gets released. Then, people might catch themselves on, and admit, reluctantly or otherwise, that I did actually know something about what I was talking about.
 
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#22
Oh, I forgot to add - and I thought it worthy of a seperate post - before anyone mentions DLC, let me say it again for the hundredth time: DLC DOES NOT AFFECT MOD TOOLS.

In fact, speaking of DLC, I will hint now that I happen to know something about this. And that hint is this: there is going to be a surprise in store with this, and it will make some of our community members do a double take when it is officially announced.

There! Just couldn't resist. Was bursting to say something, and I don't think I've broken my promise not to say anything overt about it.
 

Neil

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#23
Depends what you mean by in-depth ;) WAW tools were far from perfect at first and we had to do all sort of workaround and still do to this day for stuff like extra vehicles. But really as long as there is mod support the Community can create awesome stuff! But what you mean perhaps is will it have Radiant for mapping? No reason why not.
What I mean is they could be limited to what you can do. There might be things that you could do in WAW, even with workarounds, that you can't do with tools provided for BO. In that I mean they may intentionally restrict them. Don't know what the reasons would be although if it is the same reason as "effecting DLC sales" then they need to take their heads out of their ass.

I just feel that you guys will have your hopes built up only for them to be brought crashing to the ground.
 

zeroy

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#24
I just feel that you guys will have your hopes built up only for them to be brought crashing to the ground.
I know what you mean but for myself this isnt going to happen. I know a lot of people have very little faith in PCDev and Treyarch for that matter but I ain't one of them. :D
 

woowoo

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#25
In fact, speaking of DLC, I will hint now that I happen to know something about this. And that hint is this: there is going to be a surprise in store with this, and it will make some of our community members do a double take when it is officially announced.
My guess - free DLC. Am I hot or cold? :)

It would explain why the PC would get this last - after the consolers have bought theirs.
 

woowoo

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#29
My bet is you're cold...but I hope you're correct...;) We'll prolly pay for DLC since the patches and the Mod Tools are free...:D
I think you're right. Since this was announced on the earning call they're probably expecting earnings from it.

But it should be interesting to see what the surprise is.
 

woowoo

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#32
Sponsorship pulls in money as well ;)
Excellent point and it would be great if my first guess was true. CoD:WaW had Intel, Nvidia, and somebody else sponsor various map packs so it was no cost to the PC fans.
 
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rudedog

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#34
At least we'll be getting the mod tools.... right...... what.... oh-no.... you mean there will be n.... oh .....ok

rc_nvg
 
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#35
At least we'll be getting the mod tools.... right...... what.... oh-no.... you mean there will be n.... oh .....ok

rc_nvg
Even if the Mod Tools appear...It's too late to save this game...scrolling through the in-game browser...I see pages of empty servers...including mine which will be canceled at the end of this month...C'mon Brink!!!
 

sgTsTuFz

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#37
Hmmm, 100 days and counting ... now 135 days. Its 80 days since I or my group last played this game.

Good luck to you still playing BO and to those still waiting on modtools.

CoD is done with me and my group. ATVI is so out of touch with the pc players that have embraced CoD for so long.
I can't imagine anyone wanting more CoD after the a** whupping that MW2 and BO have inflicted.
 
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#38
The 1.7 patch goes live tomorrow (25th). As we have been told, the patch addresses minor fixes but makes both the client and the servers DLC-ready.

The delay with the DLC has been because Treyarch (or more precisely the out-sourced company working on the DLC) have struggled with technical problems getting the DLC system to work properly. There has been considerable infrastructure changes made to accommodate the way the DLC works, but the technical problems were enough to delay the patch for as long as it has. So, if anyone is wondering why the PC community had to wait so long after the PS3 to get the DLC, that explains it - the technical problems which are specific to the PC platform caused it.

Most of this we have been told, in one way or another. What they haven't told us outright is that the 1.7 patch also makes the clients and servers mod tools ready.

A couple of patches back (I think it was the 1.4 patch), Treyarch compiled the necessary code for HTTP redirect into the multiplayer executable:

Code:
00595738: 'HTRedirectFilter',0
0059574C: 'TEMPORARY_REDIRECTION',0
00595764: 'PERMANENT_REDIRECTION',0
005A4258: 'Server redirected download: %s',0Ah,0
005AC7E8: 'Redirecting client ',27h,'%s',27h,' to %s',0Ah,0

005AC808: 'SV_WWWDownload: unknown wwwdl subcommand ',27h,'%s',27h,' for client ',27h,'%s',27h,0Ah,0
005AC848: '         you should check your download redirect configuration.',0Ah,0
005AC890: 'WARNING: client ',27h,'%s',27h,' reports that the redirect download for ',27h,'%s',27h,' had wrong checksum.',0Ah,0
005AC8E8: 'chkfail',0
005AC8F0: 'Client ',27h,'%s',27h,' reported that the http download of ',27h,'%s',27h,' failed, falling back to a server download',0Ah,0
005AC950: 'fail',0
005AC958: 'done',0

005B2CDC: 'HTTP Basic Auth - %s %s %s',0Ah,0
005B2CF8: 'http://%s%s',0
005B2D04: 'http',0
That code wasn't there in the game on launch, and it wasn't there in any exe until the 1.4 patch. Why is it there now if there aren't going to be any custom maps? Redirect is NOT needed for small mod.ff files. You can download these direct from the server because they aren't very large. Redirect is needed only for the large custom map .FF files. So, if Treyarch/Activision isn't planning on really giving us mapping tools, why put it in? I believe it is living proof that mapping tools are coming.

Also, as zeroy also noticed beside myself and a few others in the community, Treyarch put in the fs_game mod directory back in the 1.4 patch, but you couldn't run a local server from it. It needs to be "activated". The 1.7 patch will make both the redirect code and the fs_game mod directory work. The mod tools package would not work without them, but their presence in the game prior to the delivery of the actual mod tools told us they were getting ready for it.

My prediction is that next week, before the end of the month, the Mod Tools 1.0 package will be released to the community and go live. I know I have made a couple of predictions already which haven't panned out, but those predictions were confounded by the technical problems they had getting the DLC system to work. The actual mod tools have been sitting waiting for that to be done. Now the DLC system is working, there is no reason to delay the mod tools anymore.

Will the mod tools save this game? No. I think modders and mappers will struggle to get anyone to play their work. I have been keeping an eye on the unranked server browser, and it has been clear that unranked servers are not doing well. Less than a couple of thousand unranked servers - most of them empty. This has been steadily getting worse and worse since COD4 - players just aren't that interested in playing on unranked servers.

Then, of course, you have the problem of the player numbers dropping off anyway. As we all know, the DLC will split the average daily player numbers (currently < 34,000), complicating things even more. If even half of the 35,000 players still playing the game buy the DLC, that will mean 17,000 players who don't want it, and 17,000 who do. My prediction is that less than 17,000 will actually buy the DLC, but it will still split the community nonetheless. I predict that the constant kicking from servers for those who don't have the DLC will drive the remaining 17,000 players without DLC down even more. They will find another game to play out of sheer frustration.

Those who buy the DLC wont be interested in playing on unranked servers. Why would they? The just shelled out $15 for it. And of those who don't buy it, but are suffering mappathy, they will have a tough decision to make: carry on playing ranked and keep playing the same boring maps; or switch to unranked. But if the unranked servers also run DLC, it will mean they will keep being kicked from the unranked servers as well. So, those admins running unranked servers will be well advised not to choose to run DLC - it will frustrate your client base to the point they wont come back. And as that client base is getting less and less by the day, you can't afford to do that.

All in all, the mod tools will be used by mappers to make maps, because mappers by-and-large don't really give a shit if their maps get played or not. They do it as a form of digital 3D art, and not much else (maybe also the technical challenge aspect). the very fact that mappers still make maps for old games tells you they don't make them with the conscience prospect of them actually getting played. To be sure, if they do get played, all well and good. But that isn't the primary motivation in making them.

The only group who I believe will get any real benefit from the mod tools are the competitive community. They will make their Promods and their comp mods, and as they play on unranked servers anyway, the whole situation vis-a-vis players not liking unranked servers wont really affect them. They will love it all!

Good luck to them all. I will probably mod for Black Ops, but only for the technical challenge, and because I have committed myself to do it anyway. Other than that, I have spent the last 6 days playing Homefront which I am enjoying immensely. I play Blops now and again, but only because I want to finally get to prestige 15 (am 14 prestige level 32 at the mo).
 
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ButchCassidy

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Sep 29, 2004
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#40
I have spent the last 6 days playing Homefront which I am enjoying immensely.
I must admit that HomeFront is hugely enjoyable and I personally am getting hooked.
As my Clan are completly moving away from the COD franchise we could'nt care less about mod tools, the poor PC support and paid DLC.

To be honest the COD series is no longer a game for PC gamers in my opinion.
We all know its driven by Consoles and the writing is on the wall..The next one will not be any better on PC in fact it will mostly be worse and sooner or later I believe Activision will drop the support PC platform from the franchise.

We cost to much, we expect too much, we whine to much and we don't pay any where near enough..And they can't wait to get rid of us..

My Clan are just glad to be finally getting rid of the series and all the trouble and strife it brings with it..
Farewell COD It was fun but now its not so adios..:D
 
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